Transcript:

April Jasper, OD, FAAO: So you tell me in your experience and in your research, how do you break stress and burnout apart? How are they together as one? And then we need to probably roll into some of the things that we can do to prevent. And then if we find that we're in it, what do we do about it?

Dori Carlson, OD, MAL, FAAO: Well, I agree with you. I think stress leads to burnout. I think if you have that chronic stress and it hasn't been managed, that that's kind of where you end up is now you feel like you're burned out and you just want to check out. And to me, the burnout, the checking out is kind of maybe the synonymous types of things where you kind of feel like that rock bottom, maybe, that something has to change. And what do we do to manage that?

Let me go back here. I think that we as health care professionals also are more at risk because we're constantly listening to people talk about their issues, their problems. And I joke sometimes too that I feel more of a counselor some days than I do an optometrist because I've had people come in and they just wanted a safe space to just vent about what was going on in their life. I've found myself at times giving advice in the sense that be your own advocate if you don't feel healthy or whatever the issue might be.

I remember vividly one day I had a patient who I've seen for many years come in, and just a few weeks prior his teenage son had died by suicide. And you know, the exam stops. It wasn't about an eye exam that day. It was about the fact that this person felt safe to dump.

So as health professionals, even though we are just the "eye doctors," I think we're still health professions. We cater to all aspects of the body and not just the eyes. And so that makes us more susceptible to burnout depending upon what ends up coming in the office for that day.

I was just going to say, I joke that the favorite part of my job is dealing with people. The least favorite part of my job is dealing with people.

AJ: It's true. And I actually, I think as I've gotten older, if that would've happened a lot when I was younger, and it probably did and I didn't recognize it, that patients needed me for something other than an eye exam, I don't know that I recognized it as I was younger, but as I got older I started to see it and feel it. You see those moments. And for me, and I know you're the same, Dori, I tell my team, "My goal is that people leave my office a different and better person."

DC: Right.

AJ: Not just seeing better; that's just what we do. But what we are, who we are, and what we really do is we change their lives for the better. And so I watch for those moments. And I actually, I love it, but to your point, it is draining and it's hard to do 5 days a week.

I think that for me, one of the things that helped to save me from what I would call burnout and being in a really difficult place was I recognized when it was too much and I knew that I either had to shorten my days a little bit or take a couple days off in the week. And for the doctors that are out there that are feeling some of this, any health care professional, to your point, maybe it does make sense to give yourself time outside of the office. I've seen that in some of your articles. So talk to us a little bit about that.

DC: Oh, absolutely. I think there's 2 things. It's time out of the office. It's actually scheduling time to be a CEO so that it's separate and just kind of that dedicated time to work on the practice. There's a difference between working in the practice and working on the practice. So taking that designated time to be the CEO, to get your mind grouped about that, so that then when your patient care time is there, you're doing patient care time.

I found too that I was part of a consulting group for a while that it was always about the money and about seeing more patients, and the definition of success was what my gross income was for the year of whatever. And I thought, "Wait a second. We need to define what success looks like for us." Is success about the dollars, or the lives you've touched, or the numbers? And I read these social media forums and I listen to these people and what they're saying between the lines is that, "Oh my gosh, my day is so filled and so jammed that by the end of the day, there's nothing left for me or my family." So I found it was just easier if I just didn't see as many people during a day, and I just managed the time better.

AJ: Yep. I love that. That is brilliant. And I think that's another lesson from 2020 as well. We all had to cut back because that was what was happening. And we all found that we could still actually make money and be able to see fewer patients. And what a joy that was to reconnect with patients when we had, maybe some of us, lost our way.

DC: Absolutely. The churn was driving me crazy.

Missed parts 1 or 2? Find them here.

Continue Dr. Jasper and Dr. Carlson's conversation here.